So we were just talking... from the bottem up

Why bother responding to pathetic ramblings? You say we have shown no shred of proof. What proof was offered in the vitriolic rant you laid out? Your proof is from a blog written by "TexasDarlin" and THAT'S who you want to stand behind and get your facts from? Oh, well, why yes, I suppose I should believe anything anyone named “TexasDarlin” says in their blog. I guess we should all believe that we never landed on the moon either. Well, why not? There’s a website that says it’s a lie. Bah! Republicans spew what they’re told to spew. All they do is repeat the usual party LIES even after the lies have been pointed out and proven as just that – LIES. By independent sources – not Fox News and Rush Limbaugh.

Sandy

Like I said before in my “republican talky points” you have not provided one ounce of truth. All you have done is made my point for me by not really looking at the truth but by blindly ignoring the facts that have been put at your doorstep to ponder. I notice how the information that I have provided is not even mentioned but just glossed over due to your myopia (you can look that one up Cray). When you give me proof and not a bunch of ignoramus rants that you are trying to use to cover up the facts then maybe I can be swayed but personally I feel you are coming from a position of weakness and so it becomes your defense to repeat the things you Obama say in his sound bites on CNN or maybe what Nancy Pelosi says on the channel 4 news. Hey, other than that I would say you are quite informed.

PS- I will always answer your phone calls Chris if you need to tell me in person. ; )

Thomas

While your name calling be sure to call Obama President………. At least of the Harvard Law Review

Brian

HMMMM, it would seem you have been cornered, cornered by knowledge or at least with factual updates. LOL, It is a good thing that this is all done with e-mail so that you don’t have to actually hear the truth. I wonder what would happen if McCain won? Oh wait we already know, the same crap that has been happening for the last 8 years, LOL. Thomas I am curious at what point so you not hold the party line, what amount of proof would it take to sway you. I am not saying to the extreme as to change your vote per say but in life in general.

Oh well guess we will never know, LOL.

Chris

I do note that if he were to bother to actually look at Factcheck.org he would see that they also point out errors/distortions in Obama's ads and statements as well. But he'd rather hide behind the usual Republican stance - which essentially amounts to sticking his fingers in his ears while repeating over and over again everything Rush Limbaugh and Bob O'Reilly have told him to say.

Sandy

Yes, I did copy the entire chain of e-mails to a friend of mine. He has them all and I have invited him to the blog so he can give his two cents. I am only one man and to try and keep up with all of the volleys from you, your wife and your other woman (Bwahl) can get tiresome. I do have work to do you know. So I figured I could get someone on else with common sense besides me and we would make this interesting.

The only reason that I brought up the POW thing is because Brian seems to think it was no big deal and made reference to that fact in his last e-mail. To make it seem that the sacrifice that he went through is nothing is really in poor taste. I know it is not as big of deal as being the President of the Chess Club at Harvard or graduating from a Liberal hotbed like Columbia but it does tell a lot about the character of a man.

Thomas

Thomas, I just noticed you did not include this e-mail with the previous chain and you included a new person into the conversation. This only troubles me because they do not have the benefit of the previous e-mails as far as I can tell; also this seems like a dirty Republican attempt to hide the facts and opinions of others as they were presented to you. Good for you, at least we know that those spots can not be changed. LOL.

Coat tails seems like such a harsh word, especially since you supported the biggest “coat tail” rider in George Bush. I believe the fact of the matter is that at least he was able to rise above the partisan politics and seek out others of like opinion regardless of party lines. I know your pipe is large so at least now you can put this in it and smoke it. LOL

As far as being propped up, my friend you and I both know that I need nothing as simple as an ego boost of shared opinions to continue to battle wits with the like of you. It should strike you as funny though, that so many highly intelligent people disagree with the stance you so desperately hold to. LOL.

Also stop clinging to the POW deal, yes he was a POW, yes there are facts about his internment that have yet to be released, yes he SAID he didn’t talk but why so many stories to the contrary and finally yes he was conditionally released, but much mystery still shrouds the terms of his release. No one can debate he was a POW, I guess anyone would be if they were shot down 3 times, but besides that why is there so much debate and why is this the only thing anyone can point to as to why this man is great? What else has he done? Help me to understand why Republicans cling to this fact like rats to a sinking ship.

Who knows if Obama would have or wouldn’t have talked as a POW, I will tell you this as my opinion though. He was from the Southside of Chicago, toughest city in America and it would have taken an act of god to make him talk. Just my opinion with my brief knowledge of the city. I know, I know Santa Rosa is hood and if you can make it here you can be tough anywhere, LMAO.

Chris

I can certainly respect you getting your wife involved to try and cover your rear end on this one. Certainly it is always easier to stand with someone propping you up (Bwahl) than standing alone. Since I find myself in the unenviable position of having a gaggle of Liberal Lip Servers trying to corner me like a pack of howling hyenas then I must point out that as brilliant as your wife is and as educated as Bwahl is; to try and drop factcheck.org on me like it is the end all be all of facts and non-partisan fact checking is like asking a Liberal Democrat to hold my five bucks and then asking for it back in five minutes. (Brian for the record you did pay my $20 back just like you said you would). If you read the article below I believe it really blows factcheck.org out of contention for the “wow I didn’t realize Obama was so cool” awakening.
The fact that Obama “co-sponsered” a bill with a Republican does not mean that Obama has done anything except ride someone else’s coat tails “Lugar hasn't objected to Obama's characterization of their partnership or the bill, which became law in 2007, in his ads.” If you would take the time to read the information below and who is connected to Factcheck.org and Obama and his law breaking cronies it might help to remove the blinders. This is the same as Brian chirping about Rupert Murdoch!! But Brian is so blind he doesn’t realize it goes both ways. By the way Brian I never made the statement that Obama was not qualified due to the spell check issue. I just commented on it because I think it is ironic. This is just another attempt to take my words and spin them to sell your point of view because all you can point to is Obama’s resume. Maybe I should make sure that it is all factual by checking Factcheck.org? Oh, that’s right that has already been blown to hell. Oh, Brian by the way if Obama were a POW I am sure he would have talked!!

Thomas

Ok so now we have woken 2 sleeping giants I feel like Japan just before the bombing of Pearl Harbor, I believe the Admiral was asked if the bombing was a success and a great victory for Japan, to which he responded, No I believe all we have done here today is wake a sleeping giant. Brian your response has brought a singular if not rousing chuckle from way deep down. Thank you is all I can say to this.

Thomas, I did want to pile on and remind you that being concerned and supporting a group that you do not economically belong to is a little absurd. I have always told you that you don’t make enough money to be a Republican so why support policy that may (although I do hope you become wealthy so I can borrow money) never trickle down to help you?

You two guys are what is right about America though, the fact that we can all be friends and be so fundamentally different is a great thing.

Chris



People people,
I can not do this any more. It is impossible to have a logical conversation with anyone who is worried about spell checking a name and holding on to that as some reason he is not qualified (at least since about 1960). Clearly Obama is for the working man as that is his platform. If Thomas is that concerned about the top 5% of the countries income earners and how much they pay in taxes then it is clear he is willing to pull anything that sounds controversial into the conversation and it becomes a mute point. However, as not provided, ever, by the right wing I have included “cited facts” I’m not sure if Thomas will understand these as they are not “Fox Facts” but I included the link non the less; http://obamasresume.org/.
Now I realize he was not a POW but if you don’t think someone who has a masters from Columbia and is the first black man in the US to be the President of the Harvard Law Review qualified (not to mention 12 years in the Senate), then global warming doesn’t exist and this ceases to be an educated argument.

Bwahl



So I woke a sleeping giant by cc’ing the copies of my e-mails to my wife, she has access and wherewithal to actually find facts and support her arguments, Thomas you remind me of a fat, white, hairy, republican, male version of her. LOL. Read below.

Chris



Love your responses to the Republican party line that he keeps spouting. Before he starts regurgitating all usual the Republican lies and spin, he should check the facts on Factcheck.org

Obama has co-sponsored bills with members of the other party, some of which have been noteworthy. Obama and Republican Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana, for instance, teamed up on an initiative to lock down and secure both nuclear and conventional weapons worldwide, such as the shoulder-fired, anti-aircraft missiles that have been proliferating in recent years. According to a report on the bill by the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, the legislation "enhances: (1) U.S. cooperation with foreign governments to destroy conventional weapons stockpiles around the world; and (2) the United States' ability to provide assistance to foreign governments aimed at helping them detect and interdict weapons and materials of mass destruction." Lugar hasn't objected to Obama's characterization of their partnership or the bill, which became law in 2007, in his ads. Obama worked with Sen. Tom Coburn, an Oklahoma Republican, to write the Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act of 2006, which created a searchable database the public can use to look up details on federal grants and contracts. (McCain was also among the original co-sponsors of that bill, so Lieberman may have been tarring his own candidate when he disparaged Obama's legislative accomplishments). Obama and Coburn also got together on a bill to prohibit the Department of Homeland Security from issuing open-ended, no-bid contracts for emergency response activities after abuses were found in post-Katrina contracting.

Sandy

First off I agree that the original writer could be labeled extreme, I do however agree with a lot of what was written. I think that voting for McCain is bad mmmkay, but I can see your point (for you) of not wanting to vote Obama because he has not stricken a cord with you, the fact that you at least have a reason goes a long way right or wrong. That is the same reason why I vote for Obama, he has struck a cord with me, for better or worse. I cant say if he will uphold all his promises or if he even knows how to get the job done but at least if nothing else he is able (willing) to lie to me on a level I can believe in. Lets face facts here, they all lie its just whose lie you can find some truth in and then choose to follow. As far as McCain goes 20 years ago I would have voted for him, he was idealistic and had a backbone, now he has become such a follower and special interest groupie that I can just feel 4 more years of the “Bush Doctrine.” Although a friend of mine did make one good point about voting for McCain that actually makes sense, he said vote McCain so that everything gets even more fucked up so that there is no doubt everyone should vote Democrat. LOL, I loved until I thought about it and said what more proof do you need after the last 8 years of Bush? LOL, who really knows?

As far as the spell check, I was going to note it in my last message but forgot. That was Hilarious, what does it say about us as a people when Osama is more ingrained into the lexicon of human knowledge then the man vying to be the next Commander in Chief of the greatest country on earth?

Oh and BTW I would always have a beer w/ you and BWAHL any day any time (provided I have the funds) politics aside. Besides what good is it if you always agree with your friends? I am not nor will I ever be a lemming, if I were to follow a group it would be for my own reasons and I would back that up with my own opinions.

Also did you hear the rumor that Biden would drop out for family reasons and then Obama would pick up Hillary as his new running mate? This would be pure bullshit and I might lose respect for him if it happened but it would secure a few more votes.

Chris



And the opinion of the jackass that penned this rant is not extremism? For someone to say that “Republicans” are racist just because of party affiliation is ignorant. I am not voting for McCain because I think he is great or he is the right man for the job. I am voting for him because Obama does not strike a chord with me. I think he is clueless and because he says “change” does not provide enough evidence for me to believe he is the right man either. But I do know that he has voted along party lines 97% of the time and has never penned one piece of legislation in his six years in the Senate. It is not always enough to show up and cast a vote. Be a leader!! Do something!! He is the most LIBERAL senator ever and his voting record proves it. He will not win the election and it will not be due to his race but they will have to blame it on race instead of his lack of ability to get people to follow like lemmings. Except for you Cray!! LOL! We may not agree on politics but I still have much love for you and Bwahl!! I would sit down and drink a beer with you guys any day; especially if you are buying!!

PS- By the way don’t you think it is funny that when you use spell check Obama is suggested as Osama? I do!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thomas





Spoken like a true Caucasian, LOL. Hahahahahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. You are correct though the color shouldn’t matter but only people who say that are also some of the first people to criticize or use the statement “it’s not because of the color of his skin or anything”. The fact of the matter is that on average America is NOT past the color of ones skin and that is why it remains an issue, plus 2 black candidates and one black president (Bill) does not erase 300 yours of pain, notice I said pain and not racism or slavery or ill treatment? I said pain on purpose because I believe that it truly hurt everyone because we all suffer for it now, whether you were directly hurt or because now the sins of the fathers are being paid for by the sons. Know matter how you look at it, it has hurt us all, especially as men (not ignoring women just putting it in simple terms) especially as me because instead of working together it is almost as if we live in two different countries. Until the pain ceases we will always be separated.

Also please don’t tell me that you actually buy into the BS front the republicans have put up and are thinking about voting for McCain. I can respect sticking with your party but McCain? Come on, haven’t we had enough of Bush?

But I will say if nothing else the Republicans were smart to find Palin, it was a risky ploy but it is paying dividends with the women voters. She is ill equipped and has no experience and we will all be screwed if they win and McCain dies but it was still a very smart and shrewd move to do this with so much strife in the Democratic Party with Obama not asking Hillary to run with him. Republicans may be greedy, money hungry, racist self loathing sons of bitches but I give them that, they are smart sometimes.

As far as Jesse goes he and Al Sharpton are irrelevant and will remain irrelevant, their opinion is more of an extremist opinion and I can’t really stand either one they went from good intentions and defending the underdog to corporate preeners who seem to have forgotten their roots until they get home and crawl into bed. The rainbow coalition has been turned into the colors of choice coalition that can include or exclude who they like at will, self serving loud talkers is what they’ve become. Sharpton shot himself in the foot when he decided to become the male Gloria Allred and started tilting at windmills on a regular basis.

I am not saying Obama is perfect but he struck a cord with me because he is inspirational and does share my values and seems sincere and at least is willing to use the word change, whether he means it or not is another story I know but McCain and his brood are so far in denial that change is a word without comprehension to them so they can not even lie and try and promise it.

Just my opinion, LOL.


Chris



Nothing like a good racist rant too get the day started!! This is exactly why Obama will lose the election!! Continue to blame everything on the color or lack of color in someone’s skin. Isn’t the whole idea to forget about race and concentrate on the message and the plan to make the country better? I guess when you have an empty message and no real plan to get anything accomplished then you had better ramp up the racist talk to give yourself a chance. That’s politics for you. When you can’t rally people with your message then baffle them with bullshit. It is very obvious how scared the Democrats are of Palin and McCain.

You know what is really ironic; is that even the great leader and proponent of the civil rights movement Jesse Jackson thinks Obama is full of crap!! Whoever put this to paper is the real racist!!

Thomas



Feels good to be white again, HUH? LOL. Vote McCain, Palin, 2008. LOL. Extremely biased I know but has a LARGE ring of truth.

Chris



White Privilege, White Entitlement and the 2008 Election
By Tim Wise

For those who still can¹t grasp the concept of white privilege, or who areconstantly looking for some easy-to-understand examples of it, perhaps thislist will help.White privilege is when you can get pregnant at seventeen like Bristol Palinand everyone is quick to insist that your life and that of your family is apersonal matter, and that no one has a right to judge you or your parents,because "every family has challenges," even as black and Latinofamilies with similar "challenges" are regularly typified asirresponsible, pathological and arbiters of social decay.White privilege is when you can call yourself a "fuckin¹ redneck,"like Bristol Palin¹s boyfriend does, and talk about how if anyone messeswithyou, you'll "kick their fuckin' ass," and talk about how youlike to "shoot shit" for fun, and still be viewed as a responsible, all-American boy (anda great son-in-law to be) rather than a thug.White privilege is when you can attend four different colleges in six yearslike Sarah Palin did (one of which you basically failed out of, thenreturned to after making up some coursework at a community college), and noone questions your intelligence or commitment to achievement, whereas aperson of color who did this would be viewed as unfit for college, andprobably someone who only got in in the first place because of affirmativeaction.White privilege is when you can claim that being mayorof a town smaller than most medium-sized colleges, and then Governor of a state with about thesame number of people as the lower fifth of the island of Manhattan, makesyou ready to potentially be president, andpeople don¹t all piss onthemselves with laughter, while being a black U.S. Senator, two-term stateSenator, and constitutional law scholar, means you¹re "untested."White privilege is being able to say that you support the words "underGod" in the pledge of allegiance because "if it was good enough for thefounding fathers, it¹s good enough for me," and not be immediately disqualifiedfrom holding office--since, after all, the pledge was written in the late 1800sand the "under God" part wasn¹t added until the 1950s--while believing thatreading accused criminals and terrorists their rights (because, ya know, theConstitution, which you used to teach at a prestigious law school requiresit), is a dangerous and silly idea only supported by mushy liberals.White privilege is being able to be a gun enthusiast and not make peopleimmediately scared of you. White privilege is being able to have ahusbandwho was a member of an extremist political party that wants your state tosecede from the Union, and whose motto was "Alaska first," and no onequestions your patriotism or that of your family, while if you're black andyour spouse merely fails to come to a 9/11 memorial so she can be home withher kids on the first day of school, people immediately think she¹s beingdisrespectful.White privilege is being able to make fun of community organizers and thework they do--like, among other things, fight for the right of women tovote, or for civil rights, or the 8-hour workday, or an end to childlabor--and people think you¹re being pithy and tough, but if you merelyquestion the experience of a small town mayor and 18-month governor with noforeign policy expertise beyond a class she took in college--you¹re somehowbeing mean, or even sexist.White privilege is being able to convince white womenwho don¹t even agreewith you on any substantive issue to vote for you and your running mateanyway, because all of a sudden your presence on the ticket has inspiredconfidence in these same white women, and made them give your party a"second look."White privilege is being able to fire people who didn¹t support yourpolitical campaigns and not be accused of abusing your power or being atypical politician who engages in favoritism, while being black and merelyknowing some folks from the old-line political machines in Chicago means youmust be corrupt.White privilege is being able to attend churches over the years whosepastors say that people who voted for John Kerry or merelycriticize George W. Bush are going to hell, and that the U.S. is an explicitly Christiannation and the job of Christians is to bring Christian theologicalprinciples into government, and who bring in speakers who say theconflictin the Middle East is God¹s punishment on Jews for rejecting Jesus, andeveryone can still think you¹re just a good church-going Christian, but ifyou¹re black and friends with a black pastor who has noted (as have ColinPowell and the U.S. Department of Defense) that terrorist attacks are oftenthe result of U.S. foreign policy and who talks about the history of racismand its effect on black people, you¹re an extremist who probably hatesAmerica.White privilege is not knowing what the Bush Doctrine is when asked by areporter, and then people get angry at the reporter for asking you such a"trick question," while being black and merely refusing to giveone-word answers to the queries of Bill O¹Reilly means you¹re dodging the question,or trying to seem overly intellectual and nuanced.White privilege is being able to claim your experience as a POW has anythingat all to do with yourfitness for president, while being black andexperiencing racism is, as Sarah Palin has referred to it, a "light"burden.And finally, white privilege is the only thing that could possibly allowsomeone to become president when he has voted with George W. Bush 90 percentof the time, even as unemployment is skyrocketing, people are losing theirhomes, inflation is rising, and the U.S. is increasingly isolated from worldopinion, just because white voters aren¹t sure about that whole"change" thing. Ya know, it¹s just too vague and ill-defined, unlike, say, four moreyears of the same, which is very concrete and certain.White privilege is, in short, the problem.